Would the SMB games work with a serious tone?

[LBD_Nytetrayn]

I rather like his voice.

And once upon a time, when the first game had come out and the story spoke of an evil turtle tribe who turned innocent mushroom people into stones, bricks, and field horsehair plants (whatever those actually are) with their black magic, I thought it was serious.

But I cannot see it working well with a Batman tone at all, especially not these days. Just so much of what there is wouldn't really work, for the most part*. And the movie is about as dark as I'd like to see Mario get.

*Okay, so there are some guys who have made some neat comics and animations where it's pretty serious stuff, and while it's cool, I just can't take it too seriously... or even as seriously as I take Batman. Seeing it done... it's like "cool," but I'm still laughing a little on the inside at the absurdity.

[Mono41]

A serious tone sounds interesting, but I'd have to actually see it to decide. I also don't think it would do good at the box office if it was too serious. The movie is perfect example. They used a very serious tone and for some reason, people didn't like it...

[Redstar]

I like his voice too. It's iconic, just like Mickey Mouse's. I don't really expect a lot of lines from Mario anyways. His extensive use of miming to get a point across, as he does in the RPGs, is a hilarious and fitting character trait.

It's for that reason exactly, that he's so simple and iconic, that I don't see a need for Mario to be done in a more adult or dark-oriented tone. The Mario series is not about story. It's about the exploration of worlds. I can easily see a darker version of those worlds, but the comic humor should remain. (Which is why the movie succeeded in my mind)

[Mono41]

Haha. oops. I thought you were talking about for a movie franchise. Well, for the game, that still might be interesting...my friend once said, "what if Mario had blood and gore in it?" Ok that was slightly off topic, but yeah, it might be interesting...

[Phlibbit]

I disagree. I'm the staunchest critic of the SMB game series, but seriously--Super Mario Galaxy 2 was the best Mario game since SMW, hands down.

[shay42]

It's funny how "gritty reboot" has become a common term with film franchises these days, ever since Nolan broke through with Batman Begins, considering how Begins was only really gritty in contrast to the last two Batman movies and also that Tim Burton's first Batman film was considerably gritty in style (but not substance).

Meanwhile SMB was criticised in its day for being too gritty in appearance since it was made as something of a cyber-punk film.

I'd say (if anything) go back to the roots and let Pixar try it out. But what are the chances of that ever happening?

[mcgriffin]

I just think that the the franchise needs a overhaul like this, all the zelda games have been well done lately and the Mario games are turning into shit these days

Wait. Hold on. Come again? Shit is the word we're using here? Mario Galaxy is what we're talking about, right? Shit?

I was just about to post my own kinda 'serious Mario game' pitch, but then read the shit comment, and am now insanely curious as to what your concept is, and how your more ideal Mario game is served by it's serious tone.

[KoopaBro64]

I think they would, probably would be a cool game too Kinda like the final Bowser level in Mario Galaxy 1, I thought that had a more serious tone, I think that would work for a whole game too! Hope they make one someday, like, a darker, more serious 3D Super Mario Bros. in the style of Mario Galaxy That would be awesome!

I also wonder what it would be like if Mario had his original 'Lou Albano' style voice in a game..

[bob-omb]

I would really love to see a serious Mario game. I remember hearing how Charles Martinet, Mario's current voice, said how he thought that his gritty Brooklyn accent "was scary and would not appeal to young children", so perhaps it was alittle more like Wario's voice? But don't get me wrong, I love the whole Super Mario 64 experience, I will never forget being in K-Mart when it debuted, and playing the demo was like landing on the moon.

But honestly, for me, is this going to go on perpetually for the rest of Shigeru Miyamoto and Charles Martinet's career? Wasn't there shots of Miyamoto on the set of the Super Mario Bros. Super Show? He must have approved, Miyamoto didn't scream "GIVE HIM A HIGH PITCHED ITALIAN ACCENT NOW!!!".

I'd love to see an ultra realistic look, but I guess Nintendo really only wants to cater to youngsters, and neglect it's aging fanbase. Heh, somone should mod Grand Theft Auto with a Mario theme. I think it could work, it would be so far out of left field, it would revitalize interest, instead of the current Mario and Nintendo being a bit like white noise in the world of video games. No one foresaw The Beatles wearing beards and singing about people blowing their minds out in cars.

The original Mario Bros. game was about two plumbers getting rid of all the strange creatures in the pipes, next was Super Mario Bros., which sent them to the Mushroom Kingdom, and from their it's kinda gotten stuck in the same formula. To bring up Batman again, from the 60's onward, the popular notion of Batman was "POW, ZAP, WHAM". Tim Burton's vision flushed that image down the toilet for good, and the same should happen to Mario I hope one day. Not permanently, just to test the waters. Let them make a serious Mario game for us old timer's, who more than likely could drive to a store and buy the game, than to beg for it for Christmas.

[Redstar]

Heh, somone should mod Grand Theft Auto with a Mario theme. I think it could work, it would be so far out of left field, it would revitalize interest, instead of the current Mario and Nintendo being a bit like white noise in the world of video games.

There was a popular video circulated online about a month ago that did just that: Grand Theft Auto with characters/objects re-skinned to have a "Mario"-theme. You can watch it here. Feel free to join into the discussion there or add your own thoughts.

[Phlibbit]

To bring up Batman again, from the 60's onward, the popular notion of Batman was "POW, ZAP, WHAM". Tim Burton's vision flushed that image down the toilet for good, and the same should happen to Mario I hope one day. Not permanently, just to test the waters. Let them make a serious Mario game for us old timer's, who more than likely could drive to a store and buy the game, than to beg for it for Christmas.

Batman is an extremely versatile character and element of him work in just about every media and interpretation he's been in. Also, Burton's vision didn't really flush the "camp" Batman down the toilet, now did it? After Burton we got the two Schumacher films. Nowadays, while the Nolan Batman films have revitalized the character to the dark, gritty approach, there are the TV shows like Batman: Brave and the Bold which has some 60s show elements, while Grant Morrison's recent comic book run on Batman has actually brought back a lot of those elements in sly ways.

[Reptile-Queen-Daisy]

I, for one, hate blood and gore games. Ultra violent in anything just makes me disgusted. Mario is a wonderful alternative and I would never want to see it get a Mature rating.


P.S. I love Mario's voice!

[bob-omb]

I have noticed the return of Batman getting the campy look to it again. What I more less meant was, when it debuted in 1989, the immediate impact it had. Eventually as time has progressed, attitudes have shifted again. But I shan't turn this into a Batman thread. I just mean that I think in concept, a dark Mario game could succeed. And by dark, I don't necessarily mean violent, just not as quite cartoonish. Which is why I love the film, as it is a wonderful translation of a simple game to a great film.

[GetThosePlumbers]

Current Mario games are a shining beacon in an industry now dominated by excessive machismo and explicit violence. I also disagree with the over-emphasis a lot of people have on "darkness" in entertainment these days. Dark is fine, but its not a quality in and of itself, and not everything suits that tone.

[superwesleybros]

Super Mario Sunshine had a serious tone...sort of. It's also the first Mario game to feature lots of cut-scenes with dialogue and voice acting rather than the gibberish they used in the Galaxy game. Mario gets accused of polluting an island. Mario looks like he's actually talking to Toadsworth. (I wish Mario had some dialogue for a change.)

Galaxy had some dark overtones (Epic Intro/Actually destruction of the universe.)

I think it would be a fun idea for a darker Mario but not so much as a departure of the established formula.

(Ideas.)
Large Exploration game mechanics similar to the Banjo Kazooie titles.
Make Bowser's Castle a hub world and explore various parts of Dark Land.
Have some other playable characters like Luigi, Toad, Yoshi and Even the Princess!
A more action oriented Orchestral Score.
The 7 Original Koopalings!
Bowser's Airships and Tanks.
Urban City Levels, similar to Dinohattan.

well that's my 5 cent's on the matter, Maybe that will spark some new ideas.

[JayOfSuburbia]

I started to lose faith in the Mario games at sunshine, something about cleaning up pollution and the fact that I was being blamed for it just felt overly preachy. I may also be the only person on the planet who didn't like Galaxy, even if it had a different Mario voice that didn't sound like a teething toddler the entire tone of that game felt like it was made for Nick Jr. We went from the abstract sights and colors of wonder land to the kids play place at Mc Donald's. Almost anything other than that would revive my interest in any new games.

[Serum]

I started to lose faith in the Mario games at sunshine, something about cleaning up pollution and the fact that I was being blamed for it just felt overly preachy. I may also be the only person on the planet who didn't like Galaxy, even if it had a different Mario voice that didn't sound like a teething toddler the entire tone of that game felt like it was made for Nick Jr. We went from the abstract sights and colors of wonder land to the kids play place at Mc Donald's. Almost anything other than that would revive my interest in any new games.

Yeah really. I feel exactly the same way. Now we have Mario dressed like a bumblebee, pointing his rear-end in the air-- which says all sorts of weird things about Mario.

Also, a lot of the posters above are confusing 'dark' with 'violent,' there is a difference, a massive difference-- try to figure it out.

[Redstar]

I started to lose faith in the Mario games at sunshine, something about cleaning up pollution and the fact that I was being blamed for it just felt overly preachy. I may also be the only person on the planet who didn't like Galaxy, even if it had a different Mario voice that didn't sound like a teething toddler the entire tone of that game felt like it was made for Nick Jr. We went from the abstract sights and colors of wonder land to the kids play place at Mc Donald's. Almost anything other than that would revive my interest in any new games.

I've heard that Galaxy 1 and 2 are darker and more serious in terms of story, but from what I've seen I'd have to agree that it's still much lighter when it comes to atmosphere and gameplay. Whether that's a good balance seems to depend on the person, as per yourself.

[Serum]

I started to lose faith in the Mario games at sunshine, something about cleaning up pollution and the fact that I was being blamed for it just felt overly preachy. I may also be the only person on the planet who didn't like Galaxy, even if it had a different Mario voice that didn't sound like a teething toddler the entire tone of that game felt like it was made for Nick Jr. We went from the abstract sights and colors of wonder land to the kids play place at Mc Donald's. Almost anything other than that would revive my interest in any new games.

I've heard that Galaxy 1 and 2 are darker and more serious in terms of story, but from what I've seen I'd have to agree that it's still much lighter when it comes to atmosphere and gameplay. Whether that's a good balance seems to depend on the person, as per yourself.

No, the "Galaxy" series are the goofiest of the series. He dresses up in a bumblebee outfit and... just go watch a playthrough on GameAnyone.com.

[superwesleybros]

No, the "Galaxy" series are the goofiest of the series. He dresses up in a bumblebee outfit and... just go watch a playthrough on GameAnyone.com.

If you think about it, People would have found Mario dressing up as a raccoon and frog silly back when SMB3 came out.

[Serum]

No, the "Galaxy" series are the goofiest of the series. He dresses up in a bumblebee outfit and... just go watch a playthrough on GameAnyone.com.

If you think about it, People would have found Mario dressing up as a raccoon and frog silly back when SMB3 came out.

Yeah, except that was in the 80s and 90s, things were expected to be over-the-top back then. Now there's just no excuse.

[Redstar]

No, the "Galaxy" series are the goofiest of the series. He dresses up in a bumblebee outfit and... just go watch a playthrough on GameAnyone.com.

As pointed out by superwesleybros, Mario has traditionally dressed up as both a frog and a raccoon... Can't get much more goofy than that.

I don't think costume-choice is really an issue when it comes to how "serious" or "dark" the series can be. Super Paper Mario was perhaps the darkest game in the entire series in terms of theme, but it was also the most self-aware and parodic. Mario is just a versatile genre-breaker.

[superwesleybros]

I don't think costume-choice is really an issue when it comes to how "serious" or "dark" the series can be. Super Paper Mario was perhaps the darkest game in the entire series in terms of theme, but it was also the most self-aware and parodic. Mario is just a versatile genre-breaker.

Not to mention for the first time in a Mario game it referenced Heaven and Hell. and People Dying. (Tippi) People becoming evil. (Luigi) only to name a few.

[devongladden]

A serious tone could work well with these games. Zelda did well in a darker variant like Twilight Princess or even Majora's Mask. I don't see why Mario couldn't do the same, that is if they'd ever give it a chance to ever happen. I always thought a Mario / Earthworm Jim mash-up would have been great.

[superwesleybros]

I don't see why Nintendo doesn't make a story driven Mainstreem Mario title that isn't an RPG. watering down the story for Galaxy 2 wasn't bad but still. I hate to say it but someday Mario Games will get stale. I'm all for a dark serious Mario Game.

[ultimateemail5000]

Wasn't there shots of Miyamoto on the set of the Super Mario Bros. Super Show? He must have approved, Miyamoto didn't scream "GIVE HIM A HIGH PITCHED ITALIAN ACCENT NOW!!!".

Im pretty sure Miyamoto had nothing to do with the show other than creating the characters owned by Nintendo, the rest was up to the studio. Just as he stated about the movie how he makes games not movies. Miyamoto didn't even know that Lou Albano died, he laughed and bowed for griefing whn he found out.


Correct me if I am wrong, but when they were making the next Mario game after 64, Miyamoto stated Mario would be mature (taking away his famous V sign with the fingers) and we would have a Mature Mario. That was Mario Sunshine where Mario had a gun (F.L.U.D.D.) If you look at it, Mario did mature and that's what we got. Mario doesn't need a dark tone. I think that would take away everything we love about the character.

Miyamoto talks Mature Mario

Not to mention for the first time in a Mario game it referenced Heaven and Hell. and People Dying. (Tippi) People becoming evil. (Luigi) only to name a few.

This may be true but Thousand Year Door Peach became posessed I believe and Mario had to fight her evil in a evil state, also fighting her again to almost her death.

Luigis Mansion also has hints that Luigi is already dead and stuck in limbo. Like I said in another thread you can see his shadow hanging, and even the Boo's tell him to give up and accept his fait and be one of them. This could be hinting Luigi was actually dead.

Also! In SMW playing 2 players when one of the players lives are out they have a halo indicating they are dead. Im pretty sure Mario handles the death thing quite well.

I may be digging to deep into this...

[Redstar]

Miyamoto talks Mature Mario

I love to read interviews like that. Miyamoto is just such a sweet-hearted guy that every time he speaks you can really feel his love and passion for anything he makes.

The Mario games really do have a lot of dark and somewhat mature elements, so it really should come as no surprise that it adapted so well into Rocky & Annabel's vision. They were able to change so much while still maintaining the same spirit from the games.

[ultimateemail5000]

Glad you enoyed reading that article, sorry I posted all that in different comments it was because I'm on my droid. Thank you for combining them all into one.

[LBD_Nytetrayn]

I think the final stage and ending of Super Mario Galaxy balanced out some of the sillier elements.

And if memory serves, the Bee Suit seemed to elevate Mario by lifting him from his back-- more realistic than most cartoons do it, I'd wager.