The Batman Films

[Redstar]

I finally watched The Dark Knight last Monday evening, though I withheld my review due to the news of Hoskins' retirement. I can now finally sit down and express my feelings towards this film.

This was an amazing follow-up to the original in so many ways. I had heard great things about the film and Ledger's performance as the Joker for years before, but had made almost a conscious effort to avoid seeing it until now. Ledger did not disappoint. He killed that role in a way that no one expected unless they could see his trajectory as an actor. He had the makings of greatness in him. He had the power to become a role rather than act it, which far too often is the heart a film lacks.

However, I found myself drawn to Aaron Eckhart as Harvey Dent. His transformation into the Two-Face character was utterly tragic. He was systematically broken down into the base components of his psyche, which forced him to re-emerge as a very brief, yet very intensely tortured villain.

I don't believe any other superhero film has handled multiple antagonists so excellently. The key is that we're witnessing the two as real characters rather than intersecting persona. The origin of one is caused by the actions of the other. It's a very powerful theme in that two entirely conflicting philosophies so completely face each other. Bruce Wayne as the Batman is caught dead-center both physically and emotionally. His character is really just a spectator in this battle between a hero other than himself and a villain he does not understand.

Gary Oldman as Gordon was understated, yet just as gripping. Why is it that Gordon is usually one of the most interesting characters in the Batman mythos? He's always caught in the center of things, yet you want to see how he reacts. Oldman nailed even better, plus he looks great in SWAT gear.

Returning to Ledger as the Joker: this is how the character should be realized. Nicholson played his version well, but the multiple-choice origin, deeply disturbed yet also reserved version of Nolan's films plays much more closely to the comics. He's one of the few comic villains that instills true fear because he represents the absolute worst of us.

Will Rises complete the arc in a satisfying way? I'll just have to see for myself.

[ultimateemail5000]

Nolan definetly closed the book for Batman in DKR (not to be confused with Diddy Kong Racing). The ending was awesome, the movie may not have been as good as Dark Knight, but it was definetly good. It felt more along the lines of Begins to me. It was very stressful at times as well, had a awesome twist, and really sad but hearty ending. I understand why Nolan will not be going to back to these movies, it's probably stressful and he has to keep up with making them good. I personally though would have liked DKR to be called The Caped Crusader. But I get why they went with the title they had chose. Maybe in the future we will see a Batman movie called that. I just really wish they'd go back to blue and gray Batman, but people will probably just think "Adam West" and not take it seriously.

[Serum]

My favorite Batman movie is still 1997's "Batman & Robin."

Sorry, I'd rather have George Clooney play Batman on ice skates than see Christian Bale play him.

[ultimateemail5000]

They just released the trailer for "The Dark Knight Returns: Part 1, which stars Peter Weller (RoboCop) as Batman-- and it's based on the best graphic novel ever!

Is this the comic done by the sin city guy? cause i couldnt even read it, the art was just GOD AWFUL.

[Serum]

Yeah, that's the one. The artwork is supposed to be surreal and gritty, reflecting Batman's broken personality in the book.

[ultimateemail5000]

Yeah, that's the one. The artwork is supposed to be surreal and gritty, reflecting Batman's broken personality in the book.

no i think he just cant draw, but for some reason hes working with the suits. his art i awful and hard to follow, and hi batman is dumb looking too. make him too bulky, like he's the hulk. batmans not the hulk.

[Serum]

Yeah, that's the one. The artwork is supposed to be surreal and gritty, reflecting Batman's broken personality in the book.

no i think he just cant draw, but for some reason hes working with the suits. his art i awful and hard to follow, and hi batman is dumb looking too. make him too bulky, like he's the hulk. batmans not the hulk.

Are you sure you're not mistaking "The Dark Knight Returns" with its retarded sequel "The Dark Knight Strikes Again?" Because in that one the art is terrible.

[Redstar]

They just released the trailer for "The Dark Knight Returns: Part 1, which stars Peter Weller (RoboCop) as Batman-- and it's based on the best graphic novel ever!

I, for one, am very excited to see this film, though I almost feel like Batman: The Brave and the Bold handled the animation, dialogue and music a lot better.

[ultimateemail5000]

Are you sure you're not mistaking "The Dark Knight Returns" with its retarded sequel "The Dark Knight Strikes Again?" Because in that one the art is terrible.

Could be. frank miller did it, did it gave suerman? i honestly just like bob kanes stories better. thats the real batman. i also thinkthe cartoons went down hill since they no longer use the AS voice cast.

[Serum]

"The Dark Knight Returns," while having Frank Miller's artwork, was very good. Superman was in it, but he was also in the awful sequel, also penned by Frank Miller, entitled "The Dark Knight Strikes Again," which, despite featuring Wonder Woman, Plastic Man and a plethora of other superheroes, was not a good story in any way.

[Prime Evil]

Also those who saw DKR, did anyone else hear Sean Connery as Darth Vader, whenever Bane spoke?

All I could think of was the Swedish Chef as Darth Vader.

[Guest]

Also those who saw DKR, did anyone else hear Sean Connery as Darth Vader, whenever Bane spoke?

All I could think of was the Swedish Chef as Darth Vader.

Looke-a i em yuoor fezeer, Bork Bork Bork!

[1upmushroom]

Trust me, Peter Weller blows Kevin Conroy out of the water.

Eh, Peter Wellers can go either way with me. On the one hand, he at least sounds like Batman, and an aged one at that. On the other hand, Kevin Conroy's voice is so iconic and fits the character so well it's hard not to think of his voice coming out of Batman's voice.

[Redstar]

The trailer for Batman: Under the Red Hood doesn't do its masterful retelling of the classic comic storyline justice, nor its talented voice actors any favors, but it's still a good film. Anyone seen it?

[Phlibbit]

I own the Blu-Ray

It's probably the best of these "DC Animated Unverse" films that have been released, and it's loads better than the actual comic storyline it's based on. I always enjoy Conroy and Hamill as Batman/Joker in animation, but DiMaggio does a great Joker that fits this film very well.

[Serum]

[Redstar]

As an aside, I finally saw The Dark Knight Rises a couple weeks ago, so I have now seen (and loved!) Nolan's paramount take on the property. My username rank can now officially be changed to reflect that!

[ultimateemail5000]

Mattel has announced they will be launching Adam West series Batman figure next year. This is huge news, we may finally get the tv series on real DVD/bluray.

[ultimateemail5000]

They should atlseast bring back blue batman. Best Batman ever, and nobody can ever replace Adam West.

[ultimateemail5000]

Why hasn't this thread blown up about Ben Affleck as Batman? I for one am thrilled about it and know he will be amazing.

[Serum]

I'm not a big Affleck fan.

[ultimateemail5000]

I think he will play a good Bruce Wayne. A man in his 40's who's been through hell and comes back full throttle. Not saying I'm Afflecks number one fan, but I have faith in him and the multiple Batman flicks he's signed onto doing.

[Redstar]

I'm not a Batman/comics fans, so I don't have a horse in this race, although I do enjoy a good film. Affleck is an excellent director with some memorable roles of his own, so I reserve judgement until at least a trailer has been released.

[Serum]

Yeah, that's all well and good, but... it's Affleck. I'm pretty sure Kevin Smith has some sort of involvement with Affleck getting the role. I know that Good Will Hunting was actually written by Kevin Smith, but he's so enamored with Affleck that he put Affleck's name on it and let him take the Oscar for it. Don't even get me started on Daredevil or Gigli or Jersey Girl, either.

I think I've only ever seen one Affleck movie that I genuinely enjoyed and it was Chasing Amy. Again, a Kevin Smith movie-- I'm going to say something unpopular: Kevin Smith is the only reason Ben Affleck has a career.

[ultimateemail5000]

I hear Argo was awesome.

[ultimateemail5000]

So the new images of Ben Affleck as Batman have appeared online, and all I gotta say is, wow. He looks awesome. I know the picture released is really dark, but I saw one that somebody fixed the brightness and contrast, and it was very well detailed and I could see the costume. It just looks great, and the Batmobile actually looks like a Batmobile, not some rejected military tank. The only thing that urks me about this is the fact that I have to watch Superman as well. I never really cared for the character but hopefully Batman alone will make the movie enjoyable....other than the 50 other characters they are cramming into this thing...and Jesse Eisenburg as Lex Luther...uhh... I'll just stop now.

[Serum]

Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor I'll let slide-- I can actually see that working, Superman is a big, strong dude who everybody loves and Jesse Eisenberg is a little wimpy dude who was probably picked on in high school so I think he could play the kind of character who'd rise to such success with the sole intention of crushing people like Superman, simply out of spite from some unrelated schoolyard grudge.

Batfleck, however, I can't let that pass. I've read they had the choice between Josh Brolin or Ben Affleck for Batman and they went with Affleck. Josh Brolin is a great actor and he really proved himself as an awesome, tortured tough guy character in Spike Lee's amazing remake of Oldboy, last year and the fact that they picked Ben Affleck to play the most iconic superhero of the last 100 years is not only a crime, it's shameful.

Just because Kevin Smith writes all of Ben Affleck's dialogue and shadow-directs everything marketed as "a Ben Affleck Film" doesn't mean Affleck has any talent. He's a funny guy in tiny doses, but after ten, maybe fifteen minutes of screen time he starts to give me serious douche-chills. Josh Brolin is the son of a great actor and disproved any possible nepotistic allegations by surpassing his own father's acting talents.

I don't think I'll going to see Batfleck.

[Phlibbit]

Yeeeeeah.

Affleck will be a fine Batman. No problems here.

[Serum]

Yeeeeeah.

Affleck will be a fine Batman. No problems here.

You're trying to instigate me, aren't you? Ben Affleck is an incompetent, stony, backwards acting school reject whose only success stems from a 1997 Kevin Smith movie because the director of that film had a crush on him and decided to use his own amazing writing skills to make Ben famous and make it look like Ben can write and direct, not to mention act. Brolin is Batman. Affleck is just... bad.

EDIT: And yes, I'm saying Ben Affleck is in a romantic or quasi-romantic relationship with Kevin Smith. I don't need to spell out why.

[KoopaBro64]

I have to agree with Serum here. I never enjoyed Affleck as an actor. His approach and interpretation of characters always were distasteful to me personally. Ben as Bat-Man comes across as a miss-cast for me. I'm not going to doubt his physique suits the role, because it definitely does, but I can't imagine him making the role into his own. I never was into comics anyway, just films, so possibly I'm not seeing something that others can about him and Bruce Wayne. As it stands now though, he'll probably just be another Bat-Man in my eyes.

[Serum]

Thank you, KoopaBro64.

You know, a lot of people give Joel Schumacher a lot of criticism based solely on 1997's Batman & Robin. They'll go on and on about what a bad Batman George Clooney was and how cheesy and homoerotic it could be at times (which if that sort of thing is making you uncomfortable in a comic book movie, you need to re-examine your life) and the Bat-nipples, the whiny Chris O'Donnell as Robin, Ah-Nuld as Mister Freeze (who I loved in that performance)... I could go on and on. But here's the thing: Batman & Robin is my favorite Batman movie, to date.

Joel Schumacher is not, contrary to popular belief, a bad director. In fact, he's responsible for some of the most beloved films of the 1980s and 1990s and you probably don't even know it! For starters there's The Lost Boys, a vampire movie he directed-- I've never seen it myself but everyone I knew growing up had a poster for it in their bedroom.

Then in 1993 came Falling Down, one of the best movies to ever grace the silver screen. It stars Michael Douglas as a would-be action hero who has much darker intentions in mind throughout the course of his 'heroic' adventure' that when the movie is over make you play it back in your head and wonder why you were rooting for him at all!

There are lots of others, 8MM, Phone Booth, The Number 23... all great movies directed by Joel Schumacher, so don't give me that 'Joel Schumacher is a bad director' bull.

The same goes for George Clooney-- a great actor. I don't think I need to elaborate on why the way I had to elaborate Joel Schumacher's lucrative, acclaimed career.

But Affleck... Alright, boys and girls, settle down, because it's Story Time With Uncle Serum.

So, I guess it was, what? 2002? 2003? When Tom Clancy was still alive and they were still doing movies based solely on his books and not just based on the characters in his books when my father asked me if I wanted to go see The Sum of All Fears. "Sure," I said, "what's that about?" He explains it's a movie about middle-eastern terrorists dropping a nuke on American soil and how we retaliate with a vengeance. "Awesome! Let's go watch this!"

We get to the theater, and much to my dismay, the "middle eastern terrorists" have been changed due to the events of 9/11 about a year prior to not Russians-- but Germans. So immediately I know I'm in trouble with a movie where we've got modern day Americans fighting Germans and that movie isn't called "The Marathon Man" starring Dustin Hoffman.

But then, then, the next four hours of my life are taken from me by a terrible young actor who I kept saying "Come on, this can't be the star!" That actor is Ben Affleck and he somehow took a movie with a seemingly solid plot and derailed it to the point that many years later I'd realize I was watching Kevin Smith's dialogue come out of Ben's mouth based on Tom Clancy's words.

Before we go any further, yes, I am saying that everything, EVERYTHING Ben Affleck has ever said on screen was written by Kevin Smith. After the 'success' of Chasing Amy (a good movie made almost unwatchable by Affleck) Kevin Smith decided to be the hand up Affleck's proverbial backside and puppeteer everything he said and does. And when Ben won an Oscar for Good Will Hunting, they called out Kevin Smith on the fact that every line of dialogue in that movie was Smith-esque and he retaliated, ranting about how awesome Ben is at writing.

For reasons unknown, Kevin Smith secretly declined himself an Oscar so he could give it to Ben Affleck. Now the facade is out of control. Ben's 'won' two or three more Oscars in that time, all because Kevin Smith is doing all the work for him. I don't want to see Ben Affleck, the sock puppet of Kevin Smith, a good director with an inexplicable hard-on for Affleck as the most iconic, well-loved and relatable superhero of the 20th century.

Like I said before, it's not just wrong, it's shameful.

[1upmushroom]

That's all well and good...except for the fact that Kevin Smith has admitted that he had no involvement writing Good Will Hunting...several times.

[Phlibbit]

Yeeeeeah. Shouldn't have fed the Serum.

Although I do agree--Shumacher is not a bad director at all. Batman & Robin, however, is a terrible film. It's not completely his fault though. I blame the studio more than anything.

[Serum]

That's all well and good...except for the fact that Kevin Smith has admitted that he had no involvement writing Good Will Hunting...several times.

That doesn't mean it's true. Kevin Smith is so in love with Affleck that he wanted to make it look like the guy was competent enough to win an Oscar-- which he's not. Here's an idea, why don't all of you go back and re-watch Daredevil and then tell me you want to see Affleck as Batman?

Also, go back and re-watch Good Will Hunting and it'll become very apparent in the way the dialogue is written and performed that it's Kevin Smith's writing.

[ultimateemail5000]

I just have to aplogize here, i went to hit quote but ended up hitting edit button on the last post. Erasing Serums post on accident. My bad bro. You guys should just remove my moderator thing, I don't do anything really. I hate that every time I go to click quote I always hit the edit rather than quote.

[Serum]

I just have to aplogize here, i went to hit quote but ended up hitting edit button on the last post. Erasing Serums post on accident. My bad bro. You guys should just remove my moderator thing, I don't do anything really. I hate that every time I go to click quote I always hit the edit rather than quote.

Nah, dude. You're doing fine.

[Redstar]

I don't have a horse in this race. I'm not invested enough in comics, let alone any particular group (DC or Marvel), to make me care about whether an actor is truly appropriate for a role. I'm sure that Affleck will be a good Batman/Wayne and Eisenberg will be a good Luthor. Snyder has a good track record with casting. Whether he can script meaningful dialogue and direct good acting out of them is another question entirely.

My real issue is Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman. She's a gorgeous woman, sure, but she doesn't fit the appearance one would expect from a fantastical race of warriors. Any woman who portrays the character should look like she could take on Superman.

[Serum]

They just released the poster and "title" it's exactly what you expect-- the Superman symbol in the middle of Batfleck's symbol and a convoluted title with an unnecessary colon. It's Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice. That is way too many words, it should just be Batman Versus Superman, it's bad enough they're fitting as many other superheroes into it as they can cram, but is the 'title colon title" system really necessary for this one? I'm mad at this movie already.

[ultimateemail5000]

They just released the poster and "title" it's exactly what you expect-- the Superman symbol in the middle of Batfleck's symbol and a convoluted title with an unnecessary colon. It's Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice. That is way too many words, it should just be Batman Versus Superman, it's bad enough they're fitting as many other superheroes into it as they can cram, but is the 'title colon title" system really necessary for this one? I'm mad at this movie already.

I agree. Though I am all for Ben Affleck as Batman, I think this whole idea is just stupid. Out right stupid. Marvel took 7 years to build up The Avengers, they actually had everything plotted, outlined, and ready to go. (not counting X-Men and don't even get me started on this Fantastic Four remake) Zack Snyder is building up from a movie that seems like most fans have mixed feelings with, with too many characters that will be involved. This movie sounds like it will take an hour for Batman to meet Superman, then just somehow show all those hero's pop in and out for the last 45 minutes. Then you have the last 15 minutes of Batman VS SuperMan, then an alien appears, bringing all of them together to create the Justice League. You can't cram all that into a 2 hour movie unless, it's a cluster f&ck. It's just gonna be a cheap cash in.

Now if they were to reboot Batman (again) and try to make decent films and let the audiences try to adapt to the new actors, have another side movie of say Wonder Woman, or Cyborg or something, that tease hints of these characters meeting.. It could work. Not just be like HEY WE'RE A BIG STUDIO, HERE WE OWN THE RIGHTS TO DC COMICS, HEH, WE JUST SAID COMICS COMICS. NOW LET'S JAM ALL THESE HERO'S INTO ONE 2 HOUR MOVIE, THAT CONFUSE, AND POSSIBLY PISS OFF EVERYONE! BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? WE DON'T CARE, EVERYONE'S GOING TO SEE IT ANYWAY, IT'S SUPERMAN AND BATMAN!!!

I dunno if I'm making any sense I've been up all night working and coming home to working again.