A place for those who "Trust the Fungus"

I'm gonna put this bluntly....I...hate...most...Fan...Sonic...Characters...they are always shitty, god modded, children of already existing characters (sometimes using the same sex as the parents making even less sense), and always act like their badass, dark, unkillable, and everything else in that area of description...

Same goes for Mario characters, even though Mario fan characters are very rare, most of them are at least canon and have a good back story that doesnt involve existing characters, cant say I'd say the same for most Pokemon fan characters though. They are almost as bad as fan sonic characters. Sorry If I offend anyone who has fan characters, but its true. Alot of people do this.

Yes, well, you have to forgive the fan-character creators. They're just starting out, and it's practice (and wish-fulfillment). Every failed character is a stepping-stone to something a bit more fine-tuned. Honestly, one can't just get it perfect right off the bat.

I myself had an idea for a fan character--more of a joke, really. It was Nikolai Robotnik, Dr. Eggman's rarely-seen and vaguely-embarrassed cousin or brother (can't really remember which, but my money's going on cousin). The joke was that he handled the financial side of the Eggman Empire; unlike his rotund relation, Nikolai was tall and thin because he couldn't keep his food down--news and reports of Eggman's latest battle/defeat (and the resulting invoices) literally made him physically ill! Whenever he saw the good doctor engage the enemy with a massive missile massacre, the poor guy broke down in frustrated sobs. Another year's worth of balance sheets gone to waste...

It was very Laurel and Hardy, even more so than Mario and Luigi are. Except Nikolai would be the one to say, "Another fine mess you've gotten us in." Sadly, he never really went anywhere. I would have loved to have done a few drawings and fleshed him out a bit more, as he really has the potential to be utterly hilarious without ever once "being funny."

Like Prime Evil said, it's largely wish-fulfillment. It's the prospect of leaving your own mark on a universe that you love. To feel yourself involved in the story. Why wouldn't you want yourself to be a wholly good and quite competent character?

Sorry, I understand now from the creator's point of view, its just, I had a roleplay a few minutes ago with this guy and his character aggravated me to the point of leaving. I couldnt take it anymore.

He was, ahem, the son of shadow the hedgehog and rouge the bat who can use all forms of emeralds to beat even super sonic and super shadow at the same time, and he's one of those "I'm a badass, i dont like people" kind of characters and it just urggg, got me tweaked off

If you think that's bad, you should read about Ebony Darknes Dementia Raven Way.

Are we talking about fan-fiction, here? Because fan-fiction can range from great to terrible, if you want proof of terrible, just read "My Immortal," which is a weird Harry Potter fanfic...

I'll take your word for it

PresidentKingKoopa wrote:I'll take your word for it

Oh yeah, say those 6 six words while knowing what we had to suffer through!

I mean My Immortal is so bad that it makes Troll 2 look like a masterpiece. And I mean in the good kind!

I'm not really a big fan of fanfics, unless they're something creative like a fan screenplay based on source material. Other than that, I shy away from it...

I remember when fanfiction.net was brand new, I was one of the first people banned from their message boards!

Of course, I was around 11 or 12 years old, then and had nothing nice to say.

Serum wrote:I remember when fanfiction.net was brand new, I was one of the first people banned from their message boards!

Were you flaming people for not liking the SMBMOVIE?

Anyway, I think Fanfiction as a whole is a blessing and a curse. While it's an oppurtunity for many aspiring writers to show what they can do, especially when it's on the net. It's a curse because many of the fanfic writers are children, fanboys, or worst of all, children who are fanboys.

The bulk of the fan fic writers that actually have talent are moderate at best and it's really rare when the fan fic one writes is better than the original.

I agree

1upmushroom wrote:Were you flaming people for not liking the SMBMOVIE?

No, I was just being immature and idiotic. I don't remember much of those years, as I've blocked them from my memory as they were filled with abuse.

Serum wrote:No, I was just being immature and idiotic. I don't remember much of those years, as I've blocked them from my memory as they were filled with abuse.

8/ eesh sorry to hear that man

Most of my unwritten fanfiction has been about sequels of hit franchises that lead in a different direction than the way it went.

But I'm getting off track here let's just go back to Mary Sues and such.

A "Mary Sue" type character isn't necessarily bad; take into account the most well regarded characters in fiction, such as those in the works of Heinlein and even mythology. If the character has a strong enough motivation and a journey that moves towards it anyone can be interesting. It's all about execution.

I know but I'm talking about those characters that have no backstory what so ever, if it is, they have some really bad backstory revolving a video game/media story already

Redstar wrote:A "Mary Sue" type character isn't necessarily bad; take into account the most well regarded characters in fiction, such as those in the works of Heinlein and even mythology. If the character has a strong enough motivation and a journey that moves towards it anyone can be interesting. It's all about execution.

True, but when they're marked as the chosen one, is seen as strikenly beautiful to all characters, have many god like powers, and add to that, no flaws at all, then I'd consider them to be annoying and one dimensional.

The only time I forgive Mary Sues is when they're written by beginners, if they're mockeries, or if they were written a long time ago back when the cliches I emntioned weren't that much of a problem.

yeah, thats exactly what I was talking about, it aggravates me to no end when a character has been a mary sue or a gary stew. I know they are expressing themselves and their creativity and all but, theres no excuse for those who arent beginners or childs.

1upmushroom wrote:True, but when they're marked as the chosen one, is seen as strikenly beautiful to all characters, have many god like powers, and add to that, no flaws at all, then I'd consider them to be annoying and one dimensional.

Like I said, characters of myth and grand stories typically fit most of those traits, though I wouldn't describe them as being entirely "one-dimensional." A character can be someone truly admirable if the archetypes are handled very well.

just a quick little statement before I continue my little rant...again, I'm sorry to anyone who has characters like this, I'm not trying to put them down, it just that its aggravating when things like this happen.

And that's why I said that those characters are given slack. They were from older times. However I will not give slack to the Mary Sues of this generation. Mostly, because they're just excuses for the fan fic writer to go screw his/her favorite character! And even if not, they're there so that the main characters could treat the author avatar like a god.

I think probably the best definition of Mary Sue/Gary Stu is: 'An audience reaction to a character around whom the internal logic of the world, characters, and story seem to bend unreasonably, particularly if said unreasonable distortion seems to be caused by wish-fulfillment on the part of the author, particularly if they are distorting previously established rules, worlds, and characters.'

Or, the less wordy version: whatever power levels and personality traits they have, if the universe itself bends over backwards to kiss their ass they are most likely a Sue.

As for the proliferation of immature or ill-developed writers (I refuse to believe that anyone is a truly, irreversibly, irretrievably bad writer), it bothers me; however, it bothers me more that the common approach to dealing with them is to hold them up for ridicule and close them off to even good-natured criticism, instead of taking the opportunity to calmly, carefully and specifically tell them what they can improve on and encourage them to get better. :/

Some of the characters I made once upon a time make me cringe to even think about now, but if my older siblings hadn't encouraged me that I wasn't terrible, just immature, and helped me weed out the crap, I'd have never gotten any better and I most likely would be missing a large part of my identity today.

I find that when you're creating characters you have to at least give them some of your own characteristics and life experience. Trying to write for a character who has absolutely nothing in common with his/her writer is just going to be a dull pain in the ass to write for!

And yes, there does have to be at least a bit of wish fulfillment, but also enough drama to make it believable.

Prime Evil wrote:I find that when you're creating characters you have to at least give them some of your own characteristics and life experience. Trying to write for a character who has absolutely nothing in common with his/her writer is just going to be a dull pain in the ass to write for!

I agree. I've always put a piece of myself into all of my characters, protagonist or otherwise. It makes them feel more real to me.

There's nothing wrong with putting a little bit of you in your characters. But the ones I'm talking about put a little bit too much of themselves into their characters. They go way overboard!